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One of our readers learned an expensive lesson recently when he used the Reserve Price feature on eBay. He was using a third-party tool, and says the fee for using the Reserve Price feature did not display as he was listing the item. He was unaware that the fee structure had changed http://www.auctionbytes.com/cab/abn/y03/m02/i21/s01, and was flabbergasted when he got his bill. He wrote a letter to eBay, and got back a reply that said eBay would not give him credit, and read in part:
"eBay is a business, and listing items for sale on eBay is not free. When you list an item, you pay for use of eBay's website as a market for your item, a market that reaches millions of potential buyers. All sellers are charged a fee to list items using the eBay site, name, and services. Listing your item on eBay does not guarantee that the item will sell. And even if your item does not sell, you are still charged to list the item on eBay."
Scott's original letter to eBay is below. What do you think eBay should have done in this case? Post your opinion in the forum at:
http://www.auctionbytes.com/forum/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=9771
Houston, I've got a problem. I've been a early user of Ebay and have always had a good relationship with you folks and you've always been there in the past for me. I've even been a Power Seller. But this month I've got a huge problem. This month, my bill went through the roof. I never knew you changed the reserve listing fees and I don't remember getting a notice about it.
I just noticed that my account went from an average of $100 to $200 a month to $1000 a month. Since I only get an abbreviated bill by email that ends on April 30, 2004 and only glance over the normal charges and saw $180 but at the bottom, I see $516 which caught my eye and I'm scratching my head and saying, where did they come up with $516 since I see $200 and I open the online bill and see over $1000 and I say where did they get that number. It must be a mistake, I've listed items with high reserves and got charge $3 or $5 which I can understand.
No one does anything for free and if this was a car, you'd charge me no more then $40 but suddenly I understand when I see a reserve fee of $100 each week for an item I'm trying to sell. I'm amazed to say the least. Since I use Vendio to list my items, I never see the prices until I get the monthly bill from you. Well, here I am and I'm out $800 on one listing and my wife actually clutched her heart when I told her the bill of $1000 and wants to kill me for being such an idiot as to trust Vendio and Ebay.
While I can assume it's for the seller to be aware about pricing, I had to look hard to find that I was going to be charged $100 per week for the reserve on this one item. I'm asking as a favor and customer good will (heck, save my marriage, I just got a new born baby in the house).
Can you please give me a credit for the ad that is causing this problem. I promise to be aware of this reserve program you've put in place and use it wisely. I don't ask this for myself but rather for the sanity of my marriage and my son's formula and diapers.
Scott Neuman - President - Forever Vinyl
loyal Ebay member since Feb, 1996
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Hi Ina,
I'm enjoying the site, and I haven't yet mined it for even half the good stuff!
I wanted to write while I'm feeling the sting of having been ripped off by a clever eBay con which exploited a PayPal loophole I'd have never even guessed existed. I'm sunk (I think) but I'd at least like to send a warning to your readers (and maybe, just maybe give PayPal a jab for what amounts to aiding and abetting... )
First off, apologies if this has been covered before (as I say, I'm new to the site.)
I recently bid on and won what I thought was an auction for a flat panel computer monitor on eBay. The bidder list was marked "Private", (which, in retrospect, should have been a MAJOR warning sign), but as I've conducted well over a thousand buying and selling transactions successfully on eBay, I didn't think about it. Also, the bidding went up to the correct amount (in excess of $300) for the item, lulling me into complacency that the transaction was legit. I paid up with PayPal almost immediately at the end of the auction, since the seller had stated the shipping, insurance, etc. Then the trouble started.
I wrote to the seller repeatedly with no response. Finally, I received a single email from the seller stating the shipment was on it's way. Whew ! A relief, not ripped off, after all ! Well, the box that arrived a few days later contained comparatively worthless "collector" plates.
Still assuming the seller was for real, I tried again to make contact but every avenue I pursued (contact via eBay, follow up on the emails, Google search on names and phone numbers, etc) left me further tangled up in a bizzare mismatched collection of addresses and disconnected phone numbers. Now I was certain I had been scammed !
The only question was, why had I received this stupid box of plates ?
The answer to that question came several days later when I contacted PayPal within their 30 day problem resolution period. I stated I had been ripped off and asked them to cancel the transaction. Their response back to me is quoted verbatim below:
"Per our User Agreement, PayPal's Buyer Complaint Policy only applies to the shipment of goods and does not apply to disputes about the attributes or quality of goods received. Therefore, we regret to inform you that we are unable to reverse this transaction or issue a refund. We encourage you to continue to work directly with the seller to amicably resolve this dispute and apologize for any inconvenience."
That is, since I received SOMETHING, PayPal was free to wash their hands of this transaction ! Per this, I could have received a postcard, or a box of trash, or anything ! A con artist that knows this can easily use this loophole to evade any further trouble from PayPal. After expressing outrage at this "policy" to PayPal, I received the further clarification:
"PayPal is not the venue that lists the item and we do not act as an escrow service. Because the item is not advertised or listed by our service, we are not in the position to verify the quality of an item delivered as opposed to what was advertised. We recommend first contacting the seller's customer service email address, which is listed above. You may wish to contact your auction site regarding the dispute; as the venue that lists the item, they may be able to help you, or contact a third party mediator, such as Square Trade."
Of course I clearly understand that PayPal is not directly liable, anymore than the USPS is for postal fraud. However, I WOULD expect a statement from them that they are trying to at least make a pretend effort to deal with this. This sort of fraud completely undermines the trust that is critical to making on-line sales work, so it's in their vital interest to figure out a way to cope with this problem. After all, PayPal is part of eBay which IS "the venue that lists the item" and where I'm going next. (Their policy, as I understand it, it for the transaction to be more that 30 days old before you can lodge a claim.)
There's nothing on eBay or PayPals' sites that I've found so far that does anything to discourage this kind of "seller" from doing this again and again, except eBay perhaps doing away with the "private" bidders list (another magnet for abuse, as I see it.)
Anyway, thanks for letting me vent, and I'd like to have you print this tale of woe before I try going to the newspapers with it (they seem to just eat up eBay / PayPal bashing stories.)
Regards,
David
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Aloha,
Was wanting to thank you for your writing on auctionbytes and also ask if you have been apprised of the bookseller discussion forums that are bemoaning the latest changes in books. It was last June 13 that your site wrote about the Books category changes that decimated books last year. Now it appears unwittingly eBay may be doing it again! Have you seen the discussion board?
http://forums.ebay.com/db1/thread.jsp?forum=4&thread=410100023&modified=1084915945396
Check it out and see if you all want to cover it?
Thanks and all the best,
Patrick
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Hi Ina,
I was reading the interview you had with Scott Samuel in the May 9 issue of AuctionBytes, and I noticed something that he said that seemed a bit off. He said that 70% of US households are not wired for the Internet yet. I did a quick search, and according to the 2000 US Census, 41% of households have Internet access, and another source citing Nielsen/Netratings said that as of March 2004, nearly 75% of households have Internet access. I just thought you might want to know!
Sources:
http://www.census.gov/prod/2001pubs/p23-207.pdf
http://www.websiteoptimization.com/bw/0403/
Best regards,
Debbie
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