Joined: 07 Jan 2002 Posts: 699 Location: Houston, TX
Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2002 8:45 pm Post subject:
I can't argue with any of that, it all tends to support my contention that sniping isn't the problem. It's bidders that refuse to place a proxy bid. If those bidders can't run with the big dogs then they stay on the porch instead of blaming sniping for their lack of success.
abzoid, All our instincts are based on confrontation. Races, fights, and all manner of competition are based on 1 to 1 or 1 to many confrontations. Auctions are no different. Once the adrenaline gets going all manner of fists, or in this case, bids will fly.
As a calm strategist I do not want this when I compete, I want to cheat and snipe...sort of like being an ambush predator. I want the other guy to think no-one knows about this ityem. Of course a hitcounter soon puts the lie to that, so you have some suspicion that a mass of bidders is lurking
But when I sell I want no snipes, I want a bidding war to get me the top $$.
When I buy resale items in the dead summer slump I just place a low ball bid in a sniper program and walk away. If I get it I will sell it later for a lot more money with a better description and in a better buying season, winter time. I do not even want to appear as a starting bidder, lest I spook the sheepen.
Joined: 16 May 2003 Posts: 1 Location: Beautiful weste Kentucky
Posted: Fri May 16, 2003 6:25 am Post subject: Sniping service
I have used BidSlammer and won a couple of auctions.... the ones I lost were those that went beyond my limit and that's that! However, the last snipe was a bitter disappointment not only because BidSlammer failed but also because their response to this was so nonchalant. There was no sincere apology nor offer of complimentary snipes to compensate, just the insinuation that the fault had to lie in my not understanding bid increments, etc. All I wanted was that sincere apology and an answer as to why it happened.
I'll use another service and try the process again; there is a definate place for this service in the online auction business, but just as in the face to face business world customer service is everything. Too many online merchants and services drop the ball in this area of communication. I spend my money where it's appreciated. And that's that.
D hi this is my first ,i have enjoyed your opinions as to the sniper problems the best solution is to put COUNTERS on ALL pages also you should only bid what you are satisfied paying and not one penny more, you do know that a one dollar bill is worth one dollar not one dollar and one penny so let some fool pay the extra penny because rest assured 99.9 percent of the time the dollar will show up for 99 cents discipline should rule your bidding not ego ie. the equation i/e intelligence over ego. the psychological aspects of this could go on to debate for eternity ,paranoia about bird dog the high bidder with his jubilation as his snipper bid won out ect. to many scenarios to dissect but the bottom line is bid accordingly. and yes you should be very happy when you lose your bid by one penny why? two reasons you knew the item had value and you were too cheap to bid accordingly secondly you may have placed a perfect bid on the item and refused to pay a penny more ,yes one penny as you must be vigilant
Joined: 18 Feb 2002 Posts: 427 Location: Fell off the turnip truck
Posted: Sat May 24, 2003 1:23 pm Post subject:
The thrill of the chase, that's what its all about...
Take away sniping without offering some sort of alternate game element, and it'll take all the "fun" out of it...
In a way, with auctions competing with BIN listings, the same thing happened...
Course, with or without sniping or BIN options, there's ALWAYS the thrill of the hunt... for items being offered where the stupid (did I have to say that) seller(s) don't know what they have, or they make some other critical goof when posting a listing... similarly, isn't that why we love hopping in the car on Saturday mornings and hitting the yard sales, etc.?
You betcha' _________________ I have Flat Fingers... So what's your excuse?
Friends use the Back Door - eDale-Trading.com
Joined: 02 Jun 2003 Posts: 1 Location: www.AuctionStudy.com
Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 3:54 pm Post subject:
I personally believe that sniping is an inevitable part and parcel of online auctions. Since it is not feasible to stop it, we should learn how to handle it properly. As the saying goes, "If you can't beat them, join them."
Even if you don't, there will be thousands out there who will do that dirty job. As mentioned before, sniping adds to the thrill of winning an auction. In the long run, I believe that it will attract more auction buyers.
However, auction sellers like us usually frown on sniping as it usually tends to lower our final selling price. To prevent yourself from running into this problem, I offer some simple solutions:
1. Set a reasonable starting bid price so that even if there is sniping, you would have gotten a fair deal from your auctions. Most of the time, I set it slightly higher than the cost price of my items to cover my listing covers. In that way, I won't lose out due to sniping.
2. If you want, start low but set a reserve. This usually discourages snipers unless the reserve has been met. They don't want to waste their time on something that they probably won't be able to get.
Auctions with reserves have a tendency to attact more serious bidders rather than bargain hunters.
3. Writing compelling titles + quality detailed listings to push up the prices of your items. For more information, see my free 20 page guide on writing listings that will not only attract more targetted visitors to your website, but also greatly boost the number of bids you receive. http://www.auctionstudy.com/ebay-online-auctions.html
I hope it helps.
All the best,
Teo Zhenjie _________________ http://www.AuctionStudy.com
Learn exactly how you can earn serious money from online auctions for FREE. I will help you succeed in online auctions step by step. No vague theories, no guess work... Only proven tactics that work for top auction sellers.
Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 12:09 pm Post subject: Sniping distinction, please!
bidrobot.com wrote:
As a developer of Sniping tools, we specifically asked John Dex at eBay whether eBay would enact measures to eliminate last minute bidding. His response was that part of the popularity of eBay was related to the definite end time of auctions on eBay.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: bidrobot.com on 2002-08-30 07:56 ]</font>
It makes sense that the responses you received were carefully worded and the other posts regarding the disadvantages to Sellers makes a lot of sense, too. I think that there are advantages for Buyers, but only if they don't look at the 'big picture'... the long-term results.
I think one of the problems is that there's a HUGE difference between "last minute sniping" and "last minute sniping using sniping software" and I can see why eBay executives are currently wrestling with the latter. My assumption is that they're wrestling with questions like... How and to what degree will SS (sniping software) erode eBay's customer base. (I could write an essay on this, but don't want to put you to sleep ) Just do a thought-experiment and imagine what would happen if it became widely known that in order to successfully bid on eBay, a buyer needed not only 1) a special tool (SS) but also 2) a last-minute action strategy/psychology/mind set which *always* had to be ready for and compete with automated sniping tools.
This is the direction that is in the process of being established now and if I'm assuming correctly, it's a dramatic change in it's infancy.
(And it won't stay in 'infancy stage' long.) One that's so far probably one of the reasons eBay has resisted offering their own sniping software. At least I hope the execs are aware of and pondering the consequences that would almost surely result if they do not find a way to counter the rather predictable target market changes and losses eBay *as an entity* would incur.
Here's an idea...
It's occurred to me that there's a middle-ground and it might make online auctions *more* exciting PLUS offer *options* to Sellers [rather than force them into policies that they think are harming them via rules]. Why not offer Sellers the option of using a bit of Javascript or DHTML to choose whether or not to allow auto sniping software bids by inserting an image of a two or three letter word or a number (that changes each time the page is displayed) and that the bidder had to actually look at and enter along with his bid... in order to successfully submit the form (i.e. bid). Network Solutions uses this method now, for example, to prevent their main search forms from submitting ... unless a human is actually looking at the page in his browser.
Its not in eBay's best interests to help the seller gain a better price. They're a buyer centric operation, and rightly so.
HUH? Yes it is in eBay's interest if sellers get higher prices! The higher the price the higher the final fee they get. And if sellers arn't getting the prices they want, they'll go elsewhere, or they'll stop selling that item. Supply and demand is what must determine prices, not by sniping or keeping auctions shorter.
Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 2:19 pm Post subject: Should eBay eliminate sniping?
Here is my 2 cents worth on the subject.
First, let me say that I agree 1000% with everything steffi said in her first post back in September.
Now, my opinion. As a buyer I will not waste my time even looking on a site that extends the end of auction time because of a last minute bid. I want to know when the auction will end and have some idea of my success. I always place my proxy bid with a sniping service when I find an auction I want. I then forget it until I receive an email letting me know if I was successful or not. I bid the max amount I am willing to pay. Before I started using a sniping service, I was continually outbid by the same handful of bidders who birddogged my bidding. Mostly because I was unable to be present at the end of auction to even have a chance to consider if I was willing to go higher in the face of being outbid. With a proxy snipe bid I win more often and do not have to be at the computer at the time the auction ends. This saves me time and gives me peace of mind. If I lose, that's OK as someone else was willing to pay more than me.
As a seller, I have learned to not check my auctions during the early part of the week (almost always use 7 days auctions). I fully realize that other bidders also use sniping proxy bidding. Any seller who has anxiety attacks and pulls an auction before its stated ending time should perhaps stay out of the auction game. If you cannot run with the Big Dogs, you should stay on the porch. I am adult enough to realize that I cannot have sniping to do my bidding and expect early bids on my auctions. Whining about sniping is not the answer. Write the best title and description you can, use great pics that show the item clearly, use pricing strategy that will entice bidders and not put you at too great a risk of losing money and practice good customer service. Your items should then get the necessary bids to sell at a fair price. When the bid is placed is not the issue.
Just my humble opinion. _________________ The slow man with integrity will ultimately catch the swift one who has none.
I still think the only reason to use a sniping program is a hope that no other buyers will realize what you have found and pass ...
hence the chief reason sniping is bad for sellers.... it has killed the bidding war. while it's nice to see a closing bid go up considerably in the last few seconds, more often what happens is it goes up one increment and the loser goes away thinking it's not possible to win anything on ebay or that the site is filled with shills. sure this can be blamed mostly on a lack of understanding of the proxy system, but overall this lessens the bidder pool and thus in the long run lessens the final amounts realized on auctions.
Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 4:39 pm Post subject: Should eBay eliminate sniping?
I believe an auction is 2 or more people bidding against one another with a low opening bid.
Soo sorry, I am old fashioned. I am a full time seller, and I would much rather see my item bring more money than than someone sniping it for .99 at the very last second.
I like to offer my auctions at .99, but I can no longer afford doing it because of snipers.
Susu46 mentioned she can leave a bid with her service and walk away and wait for a message to come of whether she won or not.
Well, you can do that with ebay too. You can place the Maximum amount that you want to bid on that item and Walk away. If someone else wants it, they have to keep bidding until they overcome your bid. If your bid is beyond what they want to bid, you will be the winner.
I have lost so much money placing .99 auctions. I like Yahoo for extending the auctions when people bid at the last minute, only trouble is, Yahoo just doesn't have the buyers like ebay does/did.
Why do I say did? Everytime ebay rearranges their categories, I lose more and more bidders.
I used to swear by ebay, but anymore I swear at them. I guess it is just a matter of time til I pick up my baggage and move on.
Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 5:03 pm Post subject: You got that right!
That's right Gizzie. Just like I was saying, sellers will go elsewhere if this keeps up or gets worse. Sniping should be outlawed. I can't keep selling things for less than I paid for them.
If there were nosniping, the playing field would be level for all bidders. Either everyone should snip or no one.
Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 5:36 pm Post subject: Sniping make NO economic sense!
As a very long time Ebay user (7 years, as both seller & buyer) and a long time live antique auction buff (ie., non internet, you know, the real thing) I can say with some authority, I think, that sniping makes so sense for ebay or for ebay sellers.
There's a condition called 'auction fever' which I've seen occur at virtually every antique auction I've ever attended (many, in several different states). This occurs when two people both REALLY want an item and they keep bidding and bidding and bidding until one of them gives up. If there were a set end time for the bidding then the selling price would be much less than it ends up being on that item. I've seen many items sell for much, much more than retail.
When someone snipes me on an ebay auction I've bid on, yes I get really mad, but I get even more frustrated when the auction time ends before I can go back and enter a higher proxy bid.
My point: proxy bids left on Ebay do NOT necessarily reflect what someone is actually willing to pay for something. If the bidders had more time to bid they would inevitably bid higher than they think they ever would when they want something. Auction fever is what makes the world of real auctions work and what puts food on the table for real auctioneers.
Ebay has stubbornly refused to accept this fact, probably because nobody in the company has any experience in the world of real auctions. If they did know more about world of real auctions (I dont consider Ebay a real auction, obviously!) then they would realize that extending auctions until the bidding actually stops would make them AND their sellers more money. Ebay's contention that people always enter a proxy bid that is the maxiumum they are willing to pay is dead wrong.
Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 4:41 pm Post subject: sniping
gizzie. I don't use eBay's proxy bidding because I have been birddogged in the past by others who check my bidding history to find items they want to bid on. I took the trouble to find the item via searches. If they want to buy the same things I do then they can search for them also. I have a high profile on eBay among collector's of the same items I collect. I got tired of never winning because auctions close 2 hours after I was last able to place a bid.
If your pricing is causing you to lose money I suggest you go back and read my previous post on this forum.
ccantiqs. If you need 'auction fever' I suggest you stay with live auctions. Online auctions are by necessity a different animal. Isn't the live auctioneer's "Going.......going.......gone" an invitation for a bid from anyone present? In the case of a new bidder entering a bid at this time, isn't that a snipe? Also, if someone enters an absentee bid for a live auction, the bidders present are not made aware of who and how much. But a proxy bid on eBay tells everyone who and how much can be found out be continuing to bid until you surpass the other bidder. I disagree with extending the time on an online auction. Every bidder knows when the auction will end, therefore the ending time is fair. I spent 17 years of my life writing computer software. Will you please tell me just how sniping can be prevented. How does a machine detect the difference between a bid placed at the last minute due to a bidder simply waiting to place his bid and a bid placed by someone who just discovered the auction while browsing the going, going, gone pages in the category? Is the 2nd bidder in my example to be penalized just because he didn't find the auction sooner? How fair is that? Due to the nature of online bidding I believe a set end time is the only fair way to run an auction. _________________ The slow man with integrity will ultimately catch the swift one who has none.
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) Just do a thought-experiment and imagine what would happen if it became widely known that in order to successfully bid on eBay, a buyer needed not only 1) a special tool (SS) but also 2) a last-minute action strategy/psychology/mind set which *always* had to be ready for and compete with automated sniping tools.
