eBay plea: “Help needed reporting blatant listing violatio

[PhilipCohen]

eBay plea: “Help needed reporting blatant listing violations”
http://forums.ebay.com.au/thread.jspa?forumID=18&threadID=500054628&anticache=1210453373035

Where does one report an unprincipled, unethical, disingenuous, so-called “notice board” provider that, in Australia and the UK (and undoubtedly soon in the US) now disguises bidders’ IDs to such an extent that genuine bidders can no longer spot suspicious bidding patterns and thereby protect themselves from the shill bidding cheats who are undoubtedly now having a field day, every day, on this “notice board”?

In support of the decision to move to absolute anonymity this “notice board” provider has even made the nonsensical statement: “… this initiative [to obscure bidders IDs] has no impact on shill bidding [and] there is no correlation between hidden IDs and shill bidding.” Clearly, this “notice board” provider is of the opinion that that anyone who posts items for sale on their notice board is a dim-witted fool.

The new absolute anonymity regime now in place in Australia and the UK (as opposed to the bidder-specific anonymity still—but undoubtedly not for much longer—in use in the US) can have only one purpose: to further obscure bidder IDs to such a degree that genuine bidders have got absolutely no chance of spotting any suspicious patterns of bidding, and it has to be accepted that the “notice board” provider has been successful in this aim. (If anyone can think of any other logical excuse for this increase in the level of anonymity do please let us all know.)

Buyers’ cannot report what they cannot see, ergo the “notice board” provider does not have to spend any of their valuable resources pretending to do anything about it. Problem solved—for the “notice board” provider. But, for the genuine bidder, beware!

What, then, is the purpose of reporting to this “notice board” provider, “rip offs” of its members by individuals, when this “notice board” provider is now brazenly “aiding and abetting” an undoubted hoard of shill bidders to “rip off” those same members?

Clearly, this “notice board” provider is not at all concerned about the “safety” of its members; only about its appearance of being concerned about such matters—and not doing a very good job of it either!

Why is there is no concept of Christmas Day in the life of the turkey?
_________________
Clearly, the lunatics at eBay have taken over the asylum and are bent on burning it down.
“The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.” ~ Albert Einstein.

[Tradguy]

You are like a one-trick pony. Everything in the world doesn't revolve around your campaign against anonymous bidding.

Every day you write a new message about the same exact thing - even if the thread has nothing at all to do with it. It's really annoying since it does nothing to advance the argument.

But since you continuously bring it up...

As I understand it, the anonymous bidding avoids public display of bidder userids. The public display was allowing unscupulous users to send fake second-chance notices as well as off-ebay solitations. Additionally it allowed buyers and sellers to track the activities of other users, which is really none of anyone's business.

As for Shill bidding, it's usually discovered by internal cross referencing of information and bidding patterns - not by user reports (which are often erroneous).

Regardless, Ebay must feel the benefits outweigh the costs. But if you feel different, then don't use the service.

Ebay is a selling portal for sellers - they don't sell buyers anything at all. We are ebay's customers - not you, the buyer. You pay ebay nothing. I pay ebay thousands of dollars a year.

Personally, I see no reason why my competitors should know who is bidding on my items. They are my customers, and I have no problem with keeping their activities private.

[PhilipCohen]

Hi Tradguy,

Of course, you are a seller. I don’t suppose you use “User ID kept private” on your auctions, do you?

So, you are a supporter of absolute anonymity of bidding (that form of anonymity that you have not yet even experienced in the US).

Are you supporter of the compulsory and exclusive use of PayPal too?

And how do you like the latest changes to feedback? No problem for you?

Although you express yourself reasonably well, clearly you are not intelligent enough to absorb the whole of the argument nor understand the “field day” conditions that absolute anonymity (that we in Australia and the UK now suffer) creates for shill bidding cheats; or maybe you are simply a disingenuous person who very well understands and is looking forward to taking full advantage of those conditions when they are eventually applied in the US.

Understand this: absolute anonymity of bidders has got nothing to do with fraudulent second chance offers; it is all about shill bidding, which is a real problem and causes alert buyers much annoyance and wastes eBay’s valuable time in investigating reports of such activity. Something had to be done to avoid the cost of controlling this despicable activity and eBay’s simple answer was to further obscure bidding to the point that a genuine bidder has now got absolutely no chance of detecting any shill bidding, ergo shill bidding is no longer a problem—for eBay that is. But for buyers, beware! And, therein lies the crux of the matter: genuine bidders now have absolutely no way of being aware: an outrageous situation apparently deliberately engineered by eBay.

You say, “As for Shill bidding, it's usually discovered by internal [sounds like you know eBay “intimately”] cross referencing of information and bidding patterns”: Of course, you are joking? Clearly, you don’t regularly buy anything on eBay. You aren't an eBay stooge, are you?

You say, “Ebay is [simply] a selling portal for sellers”: that is what eBay claims too (you are sounding more and more like an eBay robot every moment); of course, this is an absurd premise; with respect to those items that are listed for sale by the auction process, eBay make all the rules by which members must play; including the latest creation of processes that allows shill bidders to “rip off” buyers mercilessly without fear of detection: if anyone is an “auctioneer” in this process it is eBay (not Mr Barry Fallon of Pennsylvania); and it’s about time government regulators took this mob of unprincipled, unethical cowboys to task.

What say you Tradguy? Let us all in on the real reason why you don’t like me “harping” on the matter. If you don’t like the tune I play, you could always simply stop reading my posts. You could even take the opportunity to expand further on your theory of how absolute anonymity of bidding on eBay is good for we consumers. Better still, post your views on the eBay Forums: eBay badly needs the support of persons such as you; but probably best not to disclose that you are a seller (if indeed that is what you are); others may well think that you are a potential shiller and avoid your auctions.

I am firmly of the opinion that the only persons who could be happy with absolute anonymity of bidding on eBay are eBay stooges, shill bidding sellers and naïve fools, and not even naïve fools should be allowed to be so preyed upon by such an organisation that apparently sees no problem with, in effect, “aiding and abetting” shill bidding sellers.

A healthy democracy is all about debate: by all means join in.

Time will tell ...
_________________
Clearly, the lunatics at eBay have taken over the asylum and are bent on burning it down.
“The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.” ~ Albert Einstein.

[PhilipCohen]

Hi Tradguy, are you still out there?

I must be getting old; I did not address the principal point of your posting: your idea that absolute anonymity is OK because nobody should know who is bidding on your auctions.

Well, actually, you may not have noticed, but we never have known who was bidding on your auctions; that is because members have always only ever been represented by aliases (of their own choosing).

Further, a member can now only contact another member via the eBay messaging system, so again it is impossible for anyone to ascertain who your buyer is (or their direct email address) if that member does not want to disclose such details. And, of course, now it is possible to contact only a winning bidder as the winning bidder’s contactable member ID is the only ID disclosed (at least in the US, for the present) at the end of an auction.

So, you see, apart from eBay’s disingenuous claim that there was a problem with scammers guessing members’ email addresses from members’ IDs, there is no need for the increased levels of anonymity at all; certainly, there is absolutely no need for the level of absolute anonymity, that we in Australia and the UK now suffer, for that level of anonymity serves no other purpose than to further obscure bidding to the point that genuine bidders cannot detect shill bidding and that, in effect, puts eBay in the position of “aiding and abetting” such despicable (and, in most countries, illegal) activity. (Shame on you eBay.)

However, if you still feel so strongly about hiding the identities of your buyers you can always use the “Bidder ID kept private” facility (aka the shill bidders’ “stairway to paradise”). Do let us know how your customers react to that?

As far as eBay, of its own volition, doing anything about shill bidding, and not wanting to offend you by repeating myself (again), I can only refer you to my 13 May post on that matter at:
http://www.auctionbytes.com/forum/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=6498291#6498291
_________________
Clearly, the lunatics at eBay have taken over the asylum and are bent on burning it down.
“The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.” ~ Albert Einstein.