eBay's Feedback System

[Ina]

We surveyed readers about what they think of eBay's Feedback system. The results will be published in the January 19th issue of AuctionBytes-Update.

If you have any comments, post here!
_________________
Ina Steiner, AuctionBytes.com

[pwrsellr8]

I don't think it would be a good idea for ebay to revise their Feedback Forum to exclude what is currently considered to leave "Retaliatory Feedback". As a seller I have refrained from leaving negative feedback for buyers who are abusive, unresponsive, or who do not honor the auction terms, whether or not they actually complete a transaction. On two occasions I have had buyers leave what I consider to be unfair negative feedback for me, after having exhausted my patience, time and good will. On both occasions I have left accurate negative feedback in return. This might be considered by some as retaliatory, but the fact is, if a seller has information that can be considered important to other potential sellers, or if the seller simply needs to speak in their own defense, they should have the right to disclosure. The same is true for bidders. If a bidder were to receive an item that was unfairly represented by the seller, but refrains from leaving negative feedback and e-mails the seller to complain instead, the bidder is then made vulnerable to having negative feedback left for them first by the seller. In either case, it is important for users to be able to see both sides' viewpoint and weigh the evidence themselves. Treating in-kind negatives as purely retaliatory is unfair and misleading. The administrative work on ebay's part would be taxing and I don't believe they would be willing to put forth the resources to enforce such a removal policy.

[Kduprey]

I've only been on Ebay for about 2 1/2 years with maybe 150 transactions and I've only been burned once.

About a year ago I had a psycho seller throw a screaming fit because I had a flu virus AND messages bouncing back undelivered from her email. I sent her the money order she insisted on and she cashed it and refused to send me the item, supposedly because I had not replied to the email she sent within a hour time frame. Despite being called names ect. I remained courteous but persistant about receiving the item I paid for. It did no good so after advising her first, I put a negative on simply noting that a investigation for fraud had been initiated and the record # ebay sent me.

She, as you can imagine flamed me. All CAPS and derogatory comments. You could feel the spittle splatter off the screen.

It took the actions of myself and another buyer she burned to get ebay to suspend her. Because the post office moves slower than a turtle in molasses my suit against her is still in paperwork limbo. I may never get my money back.

I feel that because she was suspending for fraud which is exactly what I noted she was doing, that her feedback should be removed from my otherwise excellent record as a buyer.

Not every transaction I've ever had has gone smoothly, but courteous communications usually smooth things out regardless of where the hitch in the process occured.

I'm careful to leave pleasant feedback, if I have a question or comment to make I do so privately. And because I've already established pleasant communications it's smooth as silk.

But I always save ALL communications with their codings until I have the item in my hands and have settled any problems.

[kjp55]

I am one of those sellers who considers the transaction complete when the buyer leaves feedback. I feel the initial feedback should be left by the buyer, noting a successful transaction....then I will respond with a finishing positive feedback statement.

As a buyer, I will always leave feedback for the seller upon receipt of the merchandise. I then expect feedback to be left for me by the seller.

Ultimately, I don't hold much stock in the eBay feedback system. My ideas on a new system of eBay feedback (posted in other places on this forum) call for an unbiased, 3rd party system (similar to the BBB). Until a system similar to that is put into play, the eBay feedback system will never be fair, especially when eBay operates the system and has complete control over every user's account standings. Three strikes and you're out system? That's like saying if you went to Sears and complained about a defective item three different times, they would bar you from ever shopping there again? I think not.

I'd think there would be dozens of 3rd party arbitration firms out there who would simply love to get in on eBay's bandwagon. They could handle things like feedback arbitration, non paying bidder disputes, customer account disputes, etc.

One other point: Does anyone really know just how enforceable the statement 'This is a legal binding contract between buyer and seller' in the eBay Terms is?

One final point: I left (via bulk feedback) 35 positive ratings on eBay yesterday and have yet to see one entry in return.

[TPRweb]

About a year ago I was very active in the eBay forums debating this issue, until I gave up because it was a never ending battle.

One of the things I suggested was to have a rating system instead.
The rating system would allow a user to rate a bidder or seller based on five categories specific to sellers and bidders respectively. Then average the results from the five categories to get an OVERALL rating.

This model would prevent retaliation from being a problem, and everyone would get a better idea as to how the bidder/seller performs.

As an example, a seller may be great at everything but the shipping, this would allow the bidder to rate them according to their shipping, and this would affect their overal rating from this bidder. If someone was concerned about shipping and saw a lot of low shipping ratings they may re-think before bidding.

I know that there would be many eBay users that would go NUTS if their feedback were replaced, obviously the ones with very high feedback, but eBay could phase things out, and or allow feedback to stay on the profile of eBay users, for those who would choose to. Then they could implement the new system.

Sometimes I wonder what they are thinking but then again I don't think I could run it any better (certain areas YES but what do I know)

All the best . . . Scott
_________________
"The Powerseller Report"
http://www.tprweb.com

[www.vinylmusic.co.uk]

I have been with eBay for 4 years to date. I have a high feedback with only 3 negs but I still feel strongly about retaliatory feedback.
My view is that if a bidder does not pay then he or she has not actually participated in the transaction, therefore I feel it is not fair on the seller if they are allowed to retaliate to neg feedback.
The fact that the seller files a non paying bidders notice followed by a final value credit request should be evidence enough to bar the bidder from leaving feedback.
The seller would be taking a huge risk if his claims were untrue and it would be unlikely a seller go that far if it were.
Getting negs removed is also too costly through Square Trade.
I successfully had one neg removed this way where a bidder gave me a neg just because I filed a non paying bidder alert. My last neg was for something equally unreasonable but I wasnt willing to spend $20 in hope that the bidder may see reason.
_________________
www.vinylmusic.co.uk is both my ebay username and website for rare and collectible records specialising in vinyl 45's. All styles of music from 1950's til present from across the entire planet.

[mdspawpaw]

I am one of those sellers, who leave a feedback as soon as I receive a 'cleared' payment. No Ifs, And's or But's about it. The way I see it and the way it actually is at that point, is the bidder has completed his part of our transaction. There is nothing more left to be done on his part except leave me a feedback. So what possible reason would a seller have to wait for the buyer to leave them a feedback?
The answer is simple, to retaliate if a positive isn't left.
The feedback I left him is for the way he completed his part of the transaction, not for what he has to say about my part.
A bidder will be more inclined to leave you a negative feedback or no feedback at all, if you wait

Granted, we have ALL received unjust feedbacks, There isn't anyway to legitimately stop them, responding to them can be enjoyable though.

When a seller gets over the fear of negative feedbacks and gets over the threats from bidders saying I'll leave you a negative feedback" for what ever reason..the easier it will be on all sellers.
Bidders will soon learn threats are not an option! I always tell a bidder who threatens me to do what they feel is right, many times I direct them to SafeHarbor too.
I have no problem leaving negative feedbacks, I really don't like to, because we never know what is going on with the bidders life at that time, but there comes a time you have to do what is right!

The system as it is, is fine. Sellers/Bidders have the ability to respond to negative feedbacks and redeem themselves..Just get past it and move on to the next bidder. "Don't Sweat the small stuff"
Janet

[JC]

[astankovic]

I like the TPRweb’s idea about the rating system with different categories. That would certainly give more meaning the feedback system.
However, I don’t see how would that prevent retaliation since a disgruntled buyer could still give bad ratings in every category regardless if it is true or not.

I’m primarily a buyer on eBay and from the buyer’s point of view I think the current feedback system is not that bad as it is. I have purchased from sellers who had some negative feedback - I can’t expect somebody to have 100% satisfied customers. There will always be some people who are not satisfied no matter what you do.
I can usually tell if the negative feedbacks are serious or not, and if the sellers has 100 positive and 2 negative that would not stop me from buying from that seller.

I think now since eBay owns PayPal, and most of the items are paid by PayPal, eBay would be able to identify nonpaying bidders and prevent them from leaving feedback. As somebody already suggested above, I also think that nonpaying bidders should not be allowed to leave feedback for that transaction.
The problem in my opinion is that eBay does not have an idea if a buyer completed the payment or not and that’s why they can’t have some automated system. However, now they might have since they own PayPal.

Regards,
Alex Stankovic
http://www.auctioncontact.net

[abqsales]

I suggested to eBay more than a year ago that the listing pages show buyer and seller feedback broken down by positive, negative and neutral rather than just the raw number. Someone who has a rating of 1,000 with no negs would generate more confidence than someone with a 1,000 rating and 200 negatives. I believe having your negative number show on the listing page would force a lot of buyers and sellers to shape up, or at least put some of the worst out of business.

EBay's idea of limiting bids for -1 to -3 buyers (suspending at -4) is fine as far as it goes, although too liberal, I think, and offenders should not just be limited on number of bids, but on dollar amounts as well. A buyer or seller's NPBs/NPSs and/or percentage of negatives should also result in limited activity or suspension, and it should be tough. For instance: 1 NPB/NPS in any six-month period, limited activity for two months; 2 NPB/NPS in any six-month period, one month suspension; 3 NPB/NPS in any 12-month period, permanent suspension. Likewise, negative feedback equal to or greater than 3 percent of total feedback (minimum 100 transactions), limited activity until it is less than 3 percent; negative feedback equal to or greater than 5 percent of total feedback (minimum 100 transactions), permanent suspension. New users would be allowed 2 negs in their first 100 transactions. These are suggestions. I wouldn't mind it being even tougher.
I've always maintained that tough standards are a necessity for eBay to be a trustworthy marketplace. Limiting or suspending people early at a reasonable level limits how much damage they can do. Sure they can come back under another ID (although requiring valid phone numbers and credit cards would help), but they're quickly going to repeat their behavior -- a leopard can change its spots, but it's still a leopard -- and eventually they'll run out of the will or ability to keep coming back.

[TPRweb]

Hi Alex,

I left a portion out in my example, and that's you would also have a seller and or bidder rating which is averaged by all the ratings you have received.

For example if 95% of your ratings came in above 8 (1-10 rating higher is better ) then it didn't matter if someone rated you a 1 in all categories, unless you only had three fedback ratings you wold have something like a 9.2 rating, someone interested could click on the 9.2 and be taken to your rating page for more detailed look at the ratings.

You can see a good implementation of this at www.epinions.com, or CNet's www.downloads.com. sure you may get people for what ever reason are not satisfied at all, but the average shows your status.

The problem I see whith eBay's feedback as it is now, because the majority of people fear retaliation, they may not leave feedback at all, therefore if there was something they didn't like about the transaction they choose not to leave any feedback.

This doesn't represent a true picture on how the seller / bidder does business. If you look at it, there's people who are extremely happy, and some that get angry and post neg, but what about the ones who didn't post anyfeedback?

I would be curious to to know the percentage . . . why people choose not to leave feedback.

As for me, I leave feedback everytime I am satisfied with the transaction, but if there is a portion of the transaction that is very poor I choose not to leave feedback. Like the time I had a seller who had very poor communication, I always pay via paypal right after the close of the auction, as I am excited to win and get my stuff, but this one seller never let me know that they received the payment, nor did I know if the product was shipped. A week later I got my stuff, so I was glad I didn't get ripped off, but I didn't feel the guy deserved feedback, and if I were to leave a neg I would have gotten one back.

. . . Scott
_________________
"The Powerseller Report"
http://www.tprweb.com

[neat_deal]

I have been a seller on eBay just a little over a year and am currently one of the smaller-volume sellers. Since I'm a full-time college student/part-time tutor that's where the bulk of my time and energy goes, but I do have a passion for selling on eBay! I would love to be able to put more time and resources into it and look forward to being able to do so in the future. Out of approximately 130 - 140 sales, I have only had 2 experiences with non-paying bidders--Thank God!

I feel very strongly about a buyer not being qualified to leave feedback if they did not complete the transaction. The ability to leave feedback is a priviledge which gets abused--especially in the case of deadbeat bidders. I feel that someone who bids and does not pay does not qualify for the priviledge of contributing to a body of information that is the only means by which a seller has to establish a reputation on eBay.

I regretfully say that I'm one of the sellers who will not neg a deadbeat bidder because, at the volume I sell, it's not worth opening the door to possible retaliatory feedback. The reason I say it's regretful is I do believe that others in the eBay community have a right to know that they have a possible deadbeat on their hands.

How I usually handle a deadbeat bidder is I email them and tell them, in so many words, that I'm cutting them some major slack by not giving them negative feedback, but I will be turning them in to eBay as a deadbeat bidder and they will receive a warning from eBay about it. I tell them if they continue backing out of future transactions they will start to accumulate an unreasonable number of negative feedbacks and this will result in other sellers starting to cancel their bids and could also result in their being suspended from eBay.

As a buyer, I always leave feedback for the seller. I consider it no small thing to help others establish and maintain a well-deserved good reputation as a buyer or seller eBay. As a seller, however, I used to be Ms. Nice Guy and leave feedback for every person who bought from me. If they paid, I left them positive feedback regardless. However, after a while it got to be very annoying when they would not return the favor. I work very hard to ensure that my customers know exactly what they are getting before they place a bid, and I put a considerable amount of effort into ensuring that they will be satisfied with their purchase. So rather than be annoyed at a buyer's disregard for this effort, I have decided that my policy is now, "You no leave feedback for me? I no leave feedback for you!" I, too, feel that the transaction is only complete when the buyer acknowledges that they received the item and are satisfied. As soon as I receive their feedback, I, in turn, leave feedback for them.

Thanks for providing this forum!

Sincerely,

Carol L. King
eBay name: neat_deal

Updated 1/21: You know...in spite of all this good resolve to quit being such a pushover, I found myself going in and adding feedback to the users who hadn't left feedback for me. Dagnabbit, if they held up their end of the bargain I gotta give 'em the kudos. Ya know?

[astankovic]

Hi Scott,

I guess I didn’t read carefully and I missed the part about the average. You are absolutely right; in that case it wouldn’t hurt the seller much since it is an average.
I think that would be a great improvement to the current feedback system and I suppose it wouldn’t be hard to implement.

Does anybody know what eBay does with reports they receive about nonpaying bidders? If a buyer is reported few times by different sellers do they suspend the account?

Regards,
Alex
http://www.auctioncontact.net

[neat_deal]

Hi Alex.

When eBay receives a seller's notification of a deadbeat bidder, they send out an email to the user letting him or her know that they have been reported as a non-paying bidder, and they are given the opportunity to dispute the report as an error. They are warned in the email that if they do not dispute the report, it goes down on their record, and if this happens a certain number of times (I think it's 3) they will be suspended from eBay.

That's what I remember about it.

Best wishes,

Carol :)

[rkalaska]

I am glad to see ebay is revising their feedback. There is one issue that I have brought to their attention many times. I have had no success in getting an answer. It pertains to searching for negative and neutral feedback for a seller or buyer. Since some ebay sellers have been on ebay for years they have a high number of feedbacks. Some are in the 10,000 range. It makes it almost impossible to go through all the feedbacks to look at the negatives and neutrals and see what the problems are. I know it is possible to have this feature since Yahoo has it. I don't know if anyone else has found this to be a problem but I sure have.
Does anyone have a suggestion? Has anyone else complained about it? I would like to know.