Should we try other auction sites besides eBay?

[Ina]

It's not good to sell exclusively on eBay! Try the smaller auction sites, and have your own Web site too. Do you agree?
_________________
Ina Steiner, AuctionBytes.com

[SellYourItem.com]

I'm a little biased, but yes, I agree.

Auction users, both sellers and buyers need to expand their horizons.

The more exposure the better!

[Romahawk]

Well Ina I certainly do agree that folks should try the smaller auction sites but then again but I am also a bit biased.

I think there are several almost insurmountable things that stand in the way of the smaller sites. The sheer volume of items on Ebay is the most obvious of course. Also sellers want to be where the buyers are looking and buyers, most of who are lazy like me want instant gratification when looking for a particular item. Why should we spend half a day surfing the smaller sites when we know it will be on Ebay and we just need to make that one stop.

I think another problem is the perception that an item on a smaller site will cost more than it does on Ebay. This I think is do to the fact that a person used to selling on Ebay has a general idea what the average selling price of his item at Ebay is after the bidding.. They then use this base figure to posts a test auction on a smaller site with a starting bid set at what they would expect to get on Ebay because they know it will probably be a one bid auction. People drop in at a smaller site, see the starting bids and head for Ebay where they know they have seen these items at a lesser starting bid. Sometimes it is the best thing for them to do but not always.

I posted a Derrick Jeter rookie card on Romahawk at a starting bid of $2.50 and at the same time I posted it’s twin on Ebay at $0.50. The Jeter card on Romahawk went begging for a bid while the twin went for $9.75 on Ebay. The person who bid the Jeter card in on Ebay is registered at Romahawk and he lost one heck of a deal by going to Ebay, go figure.

Romahawk has been around for awhile now but has twice gone through software changes that cost us both our user and auction data base and that has seriously stunted our growth. We have been using our present software for a little over three months and growth is slow but that’s ok, we are in it for the long haul no matter what. We certainly have no illusion of being an Ebay killer nor do I think any of the other sites have that goal. I think the fall of Ebay would be a disaster for Internet shopping. I do think there has to be some of the smaller sites that rise up to a competitive level though just to keep Ebay honest. One very tough nut to crack for sure but someone out there has the silver bullet and I for one would sure like to know what it is
_________________
*
Romahawk Auctions
http://www.romahawk.com

[paige9]

On yahoo I have alot of no pays and when I do file a complaint on them they get nasty yahoo is a tough crowd. I have been having good results with bidville and e-pier not alot but I noticed the last two months things have been picking up

[MSNAuctions]

Hello Ina & All!

There are some very good smaller auction sites out there,
but the problem, which everyone is aware of, is that there
are many listings but no bids.

This hurdle can be overcome, if people start to bid on the items listed there, Ebay started out just like all the smaller sites.
You can check out a vintage screenshot of how it looked, all the way back in 1997:

http://web.archive.org/web/19970614001443/http://www.ebay.com/

My company is opening a new auction site in the near future,
and since I and my employees think outside of the box most of the time, it should prove to be very different and exciting.
We have several things in the works, that will cater to our members, as well as OTHER small auction sites, yes, other sites.
We are actually going to let other smaller auction sites advertise on our site. There is a method to the madness lol

I will keep you posted...

[Tradguy]

I think everyone is completely missing the point - or at least are failing to understand the dynamics of interactive online sites. Ebay has critical mass - sellers list because there are so many buyers, and buyers visit because there are so many sellers - it's a little engine that just keeps going.

But I think the analogy of "location location" does fit. Small downtown stores die when malls come in simply because the mall is a pleasant one-stop-shop. People will pay more, and live with less service, merely for that convenience. Online buyers don't have time to sign up for "yet another lame auction site". They don't have time to hit 3 or 4 unknown little auction holes when they can hit Ebay one time. Buyers feel far far less secure on these other sites too - even though that "feeling" may have little basis in reality.

If sites like Bidville can't make it with millions of listins and COMPLETELY FREE for both buyer and seller, then I kinda doubt any small site can. Ebay made it because they had no credible competition and made wonderful advertising deals with Yahoo and AOL. Ebay further leveraged their position by taking in hundreds of billions in investment dollars allowing them to further expand. There is NO analogy or lesson to be learned by looking at where Ebay was 10 years ago. No offense - but that's horribly simplistic, and altogether wrong. Nothing, especially the internet, is where it was 10 years ago.

The best shot at Ebay competition was probably Yahoo and Amazon - but those were also dismal failures - and they had both the traffic and the capital to make it happen.

And you honestly think you will make it big with your own website? Very very unlikely. You're the little downtown shop just waiting to disappear with the maill shows up. Just about all major companies are expanding web presense - people aren't going to Joe's Office Supplies Online when they can go to Officedepot or Officemax online - and get free overnight shipping too.

You can rant and rave and throw tantrums all day - I see it on ever auction forum out there. But Ebay is THE super-mall - it's where you want your storefront to be. Ebay knows that and they will make it cost more for the prevledge of that location - just like in the brick and mortar world. Busiest malls charge the most rent. Costs will be passed on to the consumer - who will keep shopping cause that's where they want to be.

I think a lot of Ebay sellers need to get their heads out their you-know-whats and try to actually understand the dynamics of ecommerce, else many are destined to be like those old geezers downtown, whining about "them thar malls and Walmarts puttin us good folk outta business".

Rich

[kjp55]

I'll have to agree with Tradguy. I've only sold a dozen or so items on Yahoo and have only been paid for 3 of them in the last 2 years. No luck there. Amazon is worthless, as is most other small niche sites.

Selling on your own website takes a considerable amount of investment, both time and money. Return is probably way less than the return of selling on eBay. Maybe the new Froogle search engine will help but I have a feeling that will also be loaded with endless listings, having most smaller individuals' listings buried within a mass of non-paid pages at the end of the database.

I've also noticed that, since payPal has gone international, I have seen a lot more traffic (buyers) from foreign countries. Thus, instead of listing on other auction sites it might be better to re-focus on selling to untapped foreign markets. wHAT A CONCEPT, EH? Operating an international mail-order business right from your kitchen. Who would have dreamed it would ever be so easy?

I realize that many people sell items on mall sites like Tias, Collect.com, etc. but I find the bulk listing tools a bit to be desired. The time and effort is not worth it to me.

For my money, unless something changes drastically, my money will remain with eBay.

[Bid Puppy]

Dear Richard,

You sound like you work for Ebay

Ebay did a wonderful job of introducing
the Internet community to online auctions,
but things are changing! People are
finding that they don't have to stay with
one place only, especially if they are not happy
with the fees, services and policies of that website.

Even when sellers are happy, they find it helpful and profitable to branch out and they gain more exposure. There are other sites out there that are doing quite well, for instance, ioffer.com looks like it may be "the" auction house for reverse auctions.
Take a look at bidz.com, not too shabby, lots of active bids.
There are many other smaller sites out there that are doing
quite well, and IMO will take a bite out of the big sites.


"Online buyers don't have time to sign up for "yet another lame auction site". They don't have time to hit 3 or 4 unknown little auction holes when they can hit Ebay one time. "

That comment is not fair to all of the smaller auction sites
out there who are doing well, and work very hard to give their customers the close personal service that is non-existent on the big sites.

Some large sellers may disagree with you, especially when it can convert into $1000s of dollars in savings per month.
If you could save $1000s per month, wouldn't you?
If you could get better customer service,
would you try out another site?

I guess you haven't visited Auction Hook yet.
Auction hook takes all the trouble out of searching
all the smaller auction sites separately, and combines the items for
sale, from every member auction site. Think of it as a "Yahoo" that searches for specific items. It also has dedicated itself to helping new, small and niche auction sites succeed. With more and more member sites joining every day, this community could create quite a stir in the auction arena.

There are many smaller and niche auction sites out
there that are doing quite well, and this will only continue
to blossom, as more and people realize they do have a
choice in the places that they can offer their products and services.

A smart business owner knows that they must utilize many different avenues for the marketing of their products & services.
With the advent of the Internet, a whole new world has opened up for businesses, which provides access to millions of customers they might have never seen, especially international customers .

What you don't realize is, that nobody likes a monopoly,
especially when it affects their flexibility and ultimately their pockets.
For small sellers, it might not matter as much, but think about the large sellers, who transact most of their business on the big auction sites.

You are under the impression that Ebay is untouchable and bulletproof, this is not the case. Firstly, they are currently being sued by a company who just might be the rightful owner of the whole concept of Ebay. Experts are saying, that if the Plaintiff wins the case, it will affect Ebay in a large and negative way.

Also, if you read the news, it seems there is another story every week, telling auction goers about a new rule, policy, or raise in fees
on some of the large sites. Some sellers see these rules imposed upon them, as limiting, and this has been said in many places.

You see what happened to Microsoft, who everyone thought, would be the king of OS's forever. Take a look at Gateway and Dell, who now ship millions of PCs, Notebooks and Servers with operating systems other than Microsoft. With these new open source operating systems, users can get amazing, stable and user-friendly software for free, yes, absolutely free.

I'm not saying Microsoft is going out of business,
but ask Bill Gates if Unix, Linux, Redhat, BSD, and others have
put dent in Microsoft's sales....


"If sites like Bidville can't make it with millions of listins and COMPLETELY FREE for both buyer and seller, then I kinda doubt any small site can. "

You cannot base your opinion on 1 or 2 sites that you looked at.
Every website is different, and is run by different types of owners,
who have different goals.

Ebay made it because they had no credible competition and made wonderful advertising deals with Yahoo and AOL.
And the small sites can use the same strategies,
yes, they cannot plunk down $5 mil to be all over Yahoo,
but they can use companies like Overture, Google Adwords and other related sites to help them get the exposure only the big guys had access to, and you would be quite surprised at how inexpensive it can be.

The best shot at Ebay competition was probably Yahoo and Amazon - but those were also dismal failures - and they had both the traffic and the capital to make it happen.

These companies had the capital to make it happen,
but if you notice, they really don't need to rely on auctions to
bring them revenue. IMO, if Amazon or Yahoo really wanted to,
they could go right up against Ebay, but they don't seem to be
too focused on doing that.

And you honestly think you will make it big with your own website? Very very unlikely.

As I mentioned above, every company and website has different goals, and some of these sites are in existence, not to make a profit, but to help others in the Internet community.
AuctionHook.com is a prime example of this.
They allow members to advertise their sites, and share
their thoughts, experiences and knowledge with each other.
This combined with the "power in numbers" effect,
can build quite a strong Internet presence.

I am not saying that my auction site is going to make it,
nobody can tell the future. However, we are very different
from many other businesses on the Internet.
If you're familiar with Marketing, you know that
you cannot make a product first, then see if people
will buy it. This is a proven fact. Instead, what marketing does,
is study the needs and wants of consumers, and then either
redesign a current product or engineer a completely new product.
In the end, if there is a need for a certain product or service,
people will buy it.

This is how Bid Puppy was born. I was a seller on a large auction site for many years, and grew unhappy with the lack of customer service, sometime ridiculous fees, and strangling policies that I was forced to deal with.

There were countless times, when I found a way to improve a certain feature, to save time or make things easier.
Each time I wrote to the big auction site to offer my suggestions,
I received an autoresponder e-mail and after that, I never heard
back from them, or saw the feature implemented, which sometimes would have taken literally, one day to put into use.
A business MUST listen to its customers, because they are the very people who use their services and know what works and what doesn't work. I receive many e-mails from my members, asking
for a certain feature to be added, and I always explore the idea,
and make absolutely certain that I give my members a personal
reply.

Bid Puppy was created for the very reason of providing its members with unparalleled customer service, features not available anywhere else, and a dedication to low fees and ease of use. In addition it is one of our company policies to donate
5% of proceeds from every penny generated by fees.

We are also dedicated to giving back to the community.
Since I cannot be out there to fight crime, fight fires, save lives
as an EMT, or defend my country's freedom, I decided to
do something to show my appreciation and support for these
brave people. I made it a company policy to give discounts
to all US city workers, members of the US Military, including reservists and retired members.

We also have a partnership with Petfinder.org, in which
we help over 50,000 homeless pets find a much needed home,
before they are destroyed. This is all done, at no charge,
because we do care, and also, I am an avid animal lover,
and Petfinder.org is right in line with my concern and love for animals in general.

Believe it or not, I truly care about my members, and that will never change, ever. I have hundreds of happy customers from other businesses that I currently operate. I was also raised by a family that ingrained in me, that it's right to help people,
and do the right thing. We were raised to be honest and fair, and that's one quality my customers like about me.

So, you say Bid Puppy doesn't have a shot in hell?

When I set out to design and build my auction website,
I wanted something that provided what current auction sites
offer, but I wanted to do it better, and offer more features.
I decided to build a complete auction "community" or portal.

A place where buyers and sellers could meet and greet and
offer their products and services to each other, but also a place
to engage in other activities, other than auctions.
A fun place where any visitor, no matter what their age,
can visit to bid on auctions, shop, chat with each other,
check on local news and weather, and even learn for free!

Bidpuppy.com will be the first to offer a completely free
E-book library and free software download center.
We want our members to succeed, and we provide them with the tools and information to help them achieve this.

Please read our latest press release below and take a peek
at some of the features that we will be offering our members;
then read your quote above, and feel free to edit it:

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2003/4/prweb63281.php


I think a lot of Ebay sellers need to get their heads out their you-know-whats and try to actually understand the dynamics of ecommerce, else many are destined to be like those old geezers downtown, whining about "them thar malls and Walmarts puttin us good folk outta business".

Wow Richard, another strong opinion there, and possibly insulting to some of the Aution Bytes members who read it. It's not what
you say, it's how you say it.

Warmest Regards,

Michael N. Candarini
CEO & Founder
BidPuppy.com
(another lame auction site) lol!

[kjp55]

[Bid Puppy]

I agree with you on saying that we don't need another biggie
auction website. What we set out to achieve is, a community of
small and specialty auction websites, who are all part of
the Auction Hook B2B community.

When each auction site is independetly owned and operated,
it leaves no room for a monopoloy to form, and it also allows
the member sites to do things the way they want to

The Auction Hook community is growing rapidly, and we are getting
new member sites joining every day.

If you would like to see how Auction Hook can
benefit your small auction site, take a peek here:

www.AuctionHook.com

Warm Regards,

Michael

[kjp55]

You may want to check out the Independent Specialty Auctions database we've started here at Auctionbytes. Similar idea

http://abbie.auctionbytes.com/Auctions/Specialty_Auctions/

[Bid Puppy]

Excellent!

What I am also seeking to do, is have every
auction database site, like the one you just posted,
merge their members with Auction Hook

Goal:
One Big Happy, STRONG Community


Regards

[Bid Puppy]

Here is the link to what I mentioned to Rich...

http://news.com.com/2100-1018-997691.html

eBay patent case heads to trial


By Alorie Gilbert
Staff Writer, CNET News.com
April 21, 2003, 1:00 PM PT


eBay is set to go to trial Tuesday in a patent infringement lawsuit that could have a major impact on the company.
The suit, brought by MercExchange of Great Falls, Va., in September 2001, alleges that eBay infringed on three patents that MercExchange founder Tom Woolston began applying for in the spring of 1995, some five months before eBay founder Pierre Omidyar launched the auction site.

Losing the case would be a serious blow to the online auction giant, one of the most successful online businesses with more than $1.2 billion in revenue last year and continued profitability.


"If the plaintiff were to prevail on any of its claims, we might be forced to pay significant damages and licensing fees, modify our business practices or even be enjoined from conducting a significant part of our U.S. business," eBay stated in an annual report filed last month to the Securities and Exchange Commission.

eBay tried unsuccessfully to have the entire case thrown out in a series of motions for dismissal. But eBay did win a small victory in October when a judge ruled that one of Woolston's patents, covering online auction technology, is invalid and therefore unenforceable.

This week's trial, being held in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia in Norfolk, will deal with infringement claims for the other two patents, which cover methods for searching online auctions and marketplaces. eBay's Half.com fixed-price subsidiary is also a defendant in the case.

"We remain quite confident in our position and look forward to presenting our case to the judge and the jury," said eBay spokesman Kevin Pursglove on Monday.

The dispute is one of a number involving business method patents in the tech industry. Since the federal courts legitimized such patents in 1998, companies such as Amazon.com, Priceline.com, Expedia and Barnes&Noble.com have either tried to enforce such patents or have had to defend their businesses against them.

eBay, based in San Jose, Calif., is also scheduled to report first-quarter earnings on Tuesday.

[kjp55]

[Bid Puppy]

Hi K

Auction Hook was created for the specific reason
of helping all of the small and niche auction sites
join as a community, and suceed together.

You can see our mission statement here:
http://www.auctionhook.com/index.html

There are more than enough auctions to go around,
and allow each site to have a chance at being patronized.

Every site offers something different, be it the best wicker baskets in the world,
or that baseball card you have been dreaming about.

Or... Maybe that small auction site, is run by a mom and pop operation,
which completely caters to its users; and when their members
e-mail them
for help, they are answered by a real human being, not an auto-responder.
Even better, the e-mail actually contains specific info on how to solve
the problem that they are having. Well, this personal and friendly service,
provided by the small site, is just what a seller wants!

Yes some will say, "Oh, I can find that same card on Ebay."
"Why should I go to BigBobsAuctions.com when I can get the same thing on Ebay?"
This is also the view that sellers have sometimes. They say "

Why should I sell my stuff with BigBob and his little auction site,
nobody is there bidding on any of the auctions, it will just be a waste of time and money."

The reason nobody is bidding on the items there,
can be, exactly why they don't want to sell there, no action.

Well, ponder this for a moment...

Let's say, Auction Hook has an official member directory,
comprised of 248 independent auction sites. All of these
sites work together to help each other succeed.

The organization has a combined member count of 738,000 members.
Wow, that's a lot of members, a lot of bidders and sellers.

Let's say, on a particular day, the member sites have an average of around 2,000 active auctions each running.

Multiply 2,000 auctions ( X ) 248 member sites = 496,000
auctions, not bad

Ok, so now you might be saying, if "AdamsAirplaneAuctions.com" has the most "model airplane"
items up for
auction, then a member who is selling a model airplane on "BigBobsAuctions.com" won't get any bids, right? Wrong Here is why:

Maybe that little airplane up for grabs on www.BigBibsAuctions.com
is one of the rarest in the world,
and the owner just happened to be a member of BigBobsAuctions.com.

The seller could either offer it on BigBobsAuctions.com,
or BigBob could refer the seller over to www.AdamsAirplaneAuctions.com, since Adam is more than
happy to help the seller with any expert questions, etc. Adam could also show off this seller's prize auction. If Adam was a really nice fella, he would do a nice little home page feature on the plane, being it is so rare, and would do it for free, to help the seller get the most he can for it, and Adam gets a little bone thrown his way after the seller closes the transaction.

Ok, so.. Really, WHAT ABOUT BOB?

He could tell his member to list it in both places, or
he could give the referral to Adam, because...

Adam has alot of members who buy and sell radio controled
airplanes. These members need batteries for the remote,
they might even need a pickup truck to haul
the monsterous thing to the field park to fly it,
and maybe it's cold, so they'll need a nice winter coat to keep them warm while flying their new pride and joy.

Adam can refer his members to BigBobsAuctions.com, since one of BigBob's members has a really sweet deal on Duracell batteries that week. Ok, now this member also needs a pickup truck, so Adam tells him to search for a pickup truck on AuctionHook.com

When the buyer goes to AuctionHook.com and types in pickup truck,
he is surprised to see 1,000s of trucks availble.

Now, I just went and did a realtime search for "Pickup Truck"
at Ebay, and I found 65 pickup trucks up for auction.

With auction hook, I would go there and type the same
term into the search field "pickup truck", and with just one click, I am able to search the auctions and classifieds of all of the
248 official AuctionHook member sites.

This simple one click search, turns up a whole lot more pickup trucks for auction or sale within the Auction Hook
member directory sites.

The results?
Ok, you remember, I just did a search
on Ebay, and found 65 pickup trucks
available for sale...

I simulated the search engine on
AuctionHook, and did the searching
manually, just to see the results...

I made believe for a moment, that there were only
3 member sites in the entire directory.
At this point, we have much more than 3 member sites
as each site that realizes what Auction Hook
can do for them, has been automatically
signing up for free official membership.

So, I searched for the term "pickup truck"
on the following three websites,
and look what I found...


Auction Site: www.transportuniverse.com
Number of pickups for auction or sale: 893

Auction Site
www.carsunder4000.com
Number of pickups for auction or sale: 34


Auction Site
www.dealsonwheels.com
Number of pickups for auction or sale: 382

That's 1,309 trucks, just from those 3 member auction sites!

Because Auction Hook's database also searches classifieds
listed on these auction sites, people will be able to find letally millions of cars and trucks for sale, at any given time.

So, why would I put this site up and not charge anything?

Because I want to see the "little guy," and even the stay at home Moms, succeed, and Auction Hook will help them do this, for free.

Auction Hook is a non-profit organization,
and there is no reason for me to try and
turn any kind of profit from it. I built the
community to help other sites.

It costs me pennies a month to run the website,
and the rewards of seeing small auction sites succeed
with my help, is my "profit" in itself

Warm Regards

If anyone would like to become a free official member
of AuctionHook.com just e-mail addme@auctionhook.com
and include the following in the e-mail:

1. Company Name
2. Owner's name
3. URL of auction website
4. Number of registered members
5. Niche, specialty or theme
6. Anything that makes your site "different"
7. A color banner or the link to a color banner

You may also enter any other information
that would help us categorize your website.

NOTE: Auction Hook is committed
to privacy, and will never, ever give away, share or disclose
any information about any site.


Warm Regards,

Michael